Insights into Elimination Communication from the Land of the Dragon!

Hey everyone,
I met two old ladies yesterday who were sitting in the sun outside our apartment block taking their grandsons for a wee in the garden. It was nice to see. They just kept offering, neither did anything. The babies seemed very placid, I couldn't imagine Imogen just sitting there like that for very long. I’m adding some questions about how people EC to my research for my own interest.

It seems like most kids wear split crotch pants until around three years old. I bought Imogen some split crotch dungarees and long thermals... they all come stitched up, but the part where you split them is reinforced around the edges, so you just unpick that seam if you want them to be split and its all tidy. I got the lady at the market to do it for me. Haven't taken her out in them yet!! Having so many misses today, must be something in the Chinese food she is reacting to…

Kelly and Imogen (8 months)

All the little ones are in Split Crotch Pants!

Today I took Imogen down for her afternoon toddle in the sun with all the old grandmas and their charges. She kept holding on to my arms then squatting. She was wearing split crotch pants like all the other kids. Sometimes she sits down to wee, so I took her for a pee opp and she went -- first time with split crotch pants... they are so easy!!!! It’s quite troublesome to offer her if you have to pull her pants down and back up but with split crotch pants it’s like "You wanna go? No? - OK then" - finished.

Anyway, for those with younger babies, I noted that the grannies had the little ones in split crotch pants then tucked a folded, tea-towel shaped cloth into the waistband underneath the split crotch pants. This meant that a wee was caught in the cloth rather than on the person if there was a miss. Its so much easier to change this than change nappies too!! I thought it was a great idea.. like a prefold belt but with legs.

It's about 3 degrees outside at this time of day, although with the sun it feels like 10 or so. All the bubs have split crotch pants with long ones underneath and other ones on top. They are carried with a blanket or jacket wrapped around their butts, and they wear longer tops than what we normally have our bubs in. I bought some for Imogen, just very simple polar fleece pinnies that have long sleeves and do up at the back, about mid thigh in length. they use these instead of bibs, so you just wash the pinny not the woollen jersey.

Kelly and Imogen (9 months)

10 months of age is known as a difficult time with Elimination Communication – everywhere!

Other interesting things... my house helper told me that foreign mums force their children to eat Chinese food even if the don't like it and why was that? I said that our baby food is very plain and boring, and hence when kids are a bit older they don't tend to like a lot of 'interesting' food.
She asked why is our baby food so boring? I said I don't know because we are too lazy to make any, we just give her what we are eating!! Imogen even eats a bit of spicy food at 10 months, hasn't affected her wind or bowels at all (Garlic does though).

My house helper wondered why we were so 'Chinese' in our parenting style. You know what I think it is? I think its different ideas about discipline. Many of the western cultures are built on Christian tradition -- the bible emphasises the role of the parent in disciplining children. Some people think disciplining is making sure your children always do what they are told, and making sure that you don't get your children used to you being lenient from an early age. Now we are Christians, (not just 'tradition' ones) and I think the bible emphasises understanding and loving your child just as much as discipline... anyway, how can you discipline if you don't understand them? We are meant to model the discipline of God -- who loves us and cares for us and shows us more grace and mercy than punishment. In fact he loved us so much he sent his Son/himself to pay our punishment for us! Anyway, we are going to discipline Imogen when she is old enough to understand (Sears style...), but not in a way that distances her from us, or causes her to try to 'please' us with her actions -- I want her to know that we love her no matter what!!

The same with the comments I made previously about Chinese people not letting their babies cry to sleep, or giving them forced routines until they submit.... its not that I want to be Chinese necessarily, but I think there are more important things in life and our relationships than forcing routine and 'showing them who's boss'. They KNOW you have power over them – they can't do anything themselves! You don't have to SHOW them, just give them kindness. (the discipline one must go before this – gotta find it!!)

Kelly

Night-time Parenting is normal…such a relief to talk about it in China

I talked to my Chinese teacher about EC again... her child woke through the night until she was 3. Most of the time she woke three times a night, even after she self-weaned at one. She slept with her mum, and preferred her mum to have her arm over her while she slept. It has been such a relief to talk about Imogen's late night antics without any judgement... everyone here seems to have the same lifestyle. Imogen is now sleeping much better, only waking twice a night which is fine by me if I go to bed early. In fact, we often hear the baby in the apartment above us (must be also in the master bedroom) waking through the night too.

Kelly

Had few EC conversations this week with my teacher. She has a six-year-old and she EC'd her from one month (obviously not so much now :-). She used disposable nappies at night, although she said after around one year her daughter started wanting mum to take her to the loo at night, so she took her wees THREE times per night until she was THREE YEARS OLD! (wow that's tiring...) She used split crotch pants from one month until one year. Then put her in ordinary pants with split crotch underwear. She thinks it’s strange that some mums keep their bubs in split crotch pants until they are well older than three... I think this is the Chinese equivalent to the late toilet trainer. Her daughter prefers the western toilet to the squat toilet, as its more comfortable.. In fact once she even found her daughter asleep on there!

Kelly

We also shared with a whole group of foreigners (none with kids.. some pregnant) what we were doing. It came from them seeing us change her wet pants on my lap from one pair of training pants to another, plus a new pair of pants. They though that was much more convenient than having to find somewhere to change nappies (or worse.. just never changing them) (because you have to lay the baby down to change nappies, and there is no where clean enough to do that when out). Anyway, then we got on to talking about EC and they all thought it was really cool and amazing. I guess I just don't think it is that amazing anymore (sad I know) because it is so normal in China... misses are normal, weeing in the potty and toilet is normal, its just part of a learning process like learning to walk, talk and eat.

Kelly

Imogen’s developmental adventures in self pottying!

Greetings from springtime in Xining! Getting out a bit more means that Imogen can do her business outdoors a lot more, which of course is much appreciated. She is now 11 months, and the one year mark is approaching rapidly. The developmental leaps have just kept coming, with the development of small motor skills her major focus at the moment (after mastering her first steps, she has gone on walking strike and is now wanting to do little things!). She spends her time putting things in and out of bags and baskets, and on top of that spends a lot of time trying to get herself on the potty (this is difficult considering she isn't walking). Mostly it involves holding on to a chair and trying to put both feet in the potty then squatting. She has yet to really sit down herself, but after 20 minutes of trying will (finally) let me help her lower herself down to wee.
Kelly

Kids Clothing in China – odd clothes are cute!

Imogen is wearing split crotch pants most of the time, and is growing out of her dungarees so I have bought her some trousers. Kids clothes in China are very bright, do not come in matching sets, and in general are covered with little faces, cartoons or interesting buttons and glitters. Imogen LOVES them, especially the orange ones. She has almost grown out of all her pastel pink and purple and is wearing bright colours mostly, it's really cute. Apparently mis-matching clothing is considered really cute in China (so I'm told) for babies and kids anyway. So no worries with your orange shoes, pink stockings and yellow and black spotted dress.

The coolest thing I have found is SPLIT CROTCH STOCKINGS. These are really cool, as they are very fitted and warm, but with a nice big split. They don't have feet actually, just a sort of frill round the bottom that goes over the shoes. And little bows and ribbons attached. Anyway, I have yet to buy her a dress to wear with them, but sometimes she wears them round home. They are so convenient, and I think with a dress would be quite modest.

Kelly

I've had a few chats this week with Chinese EC’ers. My cleaner said that in the village they don't change the babies' pants in the summer if they have a miss, just let them dry. I was thinking about this myself, as when Imogen pees on me I don't always need to change my pants, same with the split crotch pants, a lot might go on the floor (or Mum) and not so much on the pants, they can then quickly dry. She said in the winter they change them immediately, but only really do washing once a week. I assume this means they actually dry the pants without washing and rotate them until washing day. Not sure how many pairs they would have. They also have hand-knitted woollen split crotch pants so these wouldn't smell too bad. I know this sounds gross, but if you don't have running water or a washing machine this is really your only option. I try to use only two pairs of pants a day, and dry them in between, then put them in the wash at the end of the day.

Kelly

"Potty Pauses" – just part of the process…normal… move on.

My husband asked our cleaner if Chinese babies also refuse to go for you. She said YES all the time!! Her nephew is currently three months old and on a potty strike - he just straightens his legs and refuses to let you take him. We asked this because Imogen REALLY wants to do it herself now, and this has led to a lot of misses. I think Chinese people just accept this as part of the process, along with getting wet, having misses and doing washing. They don't stress about it or punish them or anything. It's just normal.

In saying that, I think for us I like using one wets the best, with pants overtop. But our One Wets have stopped working (homemade ones... I didn't put a waterproof layer and now I think they have just lost a lot of their absorbency) and her pants get wet anyway, so I think I might as well just put her in split crotch pants. I still feel embarrassed when we go out with foreigners, so I put her in training pants and other pants then, but still have to bring changes of over pants anyway!

That's all for now!! Happy International Workers' week (a big holiday in China... communist country you know!)

Kelly

In China it is considered damaging to leave your baby in nappies until two or three!

I was talking to a Chinese mum the other day who co-sleeps with her six year old. She was squirming, squirming and mum says "Sweetie you need to go wees." So she wakes up and takes herself. Apparently this happens a few times a month. I wonder whether some of the problems with bed wetting in the West could be solved with a bit more parental responsibility? I do remember my brother needing to be woken at 11pm every night to wee otherwise he would wet his bed in the morning.

Anyway, we were talking about extended bed wetting problems even in four-year-olds, who were still in night nappies. She thought that was the problem and nappies should be stopped between twelve to eighteen months old at night, to encourage the child to wake to wee. I don't know how reliable her theory is, but it certainly made me think about whether we expect too much of our kids sometimes -- do WE need to be responsible for helping them stay dry, and learn to stay dry, rather than resorting to nappy use?

Kelly

The Kang – the traditional, heated Chinese bed.

We are planning to go out and spend some time in the village for my research, I feel more confident now that Imogen is more reliably dry during the night and day (14 months), as there is no running water for washing. Most people sleep on a kang... a raised brick bed platform that can be heated from underneath like an oven. They put several thick cotton quilts over it and the whole family sleeps on it. Sure would be convenient for drying wet bedding... just rinse the spot and heat the kang up for a few hours!

During the day, they fold up the bedding and sit on a quilt and put a coffee table on it, you can sit around on the bedding and drink cups of tea, eat dinner and so on, great when its cold. But anyway, a foreigner told me there wouldn't be much chance of me being able to stay out there with Imogen because of not having running water. Afterwards I thought… Well they have their children out there too don't they? I'm glad we decided to adopt a very simple approach with Imogen, no cots, prams, nappies and so on, as it means she can adjust to village life so much easier.

Although we did just buy a folding buggy for around town... she is around 12kg and hates the sling now, either wants to be carried or walk by herself. I was doubtful about the pram as the footpaths here are so bad, but my supervisor bought it for us... Imogen LOVES it, she even goes to find it in the storage room and asks to go out in it. So glad to have it, and so much easier to take her out for longer walks. I guess the lesson is to go with your baby's leading and never say never right?
Kelly and Imogen (14 months)

There are now even nappies that fit in split crotch pants!

They have these disposable nappies here that are more like sanitary pads. They have a sticky bit at the front and the back, but no sides, just like a big ‘U’ shaped nappy/pad. You can stick them to the front and back of the split crotch pants and then change them easily while out -- you don't need to find a nappy change area, if such a thing in fact exists in this part of China? I bought some as we had finally used our last nappy from Australia while we were in Beijing (for night wees). I bought them back here in Xining, and you wouldn't believe the price. It's Western prices, but everyone here is on Chinese wages (at the low-end in fact). So people want to be able to take baby for wees easily so the disposable can last for much longer. Cool aye?

Kelly

Whose responsibility is it to take baby/toddler to the toilet?

I've been doing some real research this week, and can't help but stick a few nappy-free and breastfeeding questions in there for interest's sake. I was going over some interviews my research assistant did for me this week -- he is supposed to be interviewing men for me but has ended up interviewing women as they are more willing to talk to him (I have the opposite problem!
Maybe because he is young and good looking all the women want to chat with him LOL!!). 

One of the questions is "Whose responsibility is it to take baby/toddler to the toilet?" The answer was mostly "who-ever is free, normally MIL, FIL or the mother". I know that he lives with his aunty and 18 month old cousin so I asked him "How do you know when your cousin
needs to go to the toilet?" He said that it's a bit difficult before they can talk, so if he was looking after them he normally just offered them every half hour, or if they were wriggly. This is a 19 year old uni student!  But after they can talk they mostly tell him. Sometimes he is on the couch watching TV with his cousin next to him, and his cousin wees on the couch. So he slaps his wrist and says "You have to tell big brother if you want to go!" and his cousin says "OK". 

This is the first time I have heard of punishing in relation to EC here -- I don't know if its just this guy or whether other family members do too, or how old the kids are when they start (probably when they start reliably talking). Anyway, everyone I have talked to recently said that they basically are dry from around about one year old.

The other thing I have been noticing is that kids not much older than Imogen are able to squat down outside and go by themselves. Imogen has only a few times actually squatted and gone (SOOOOO much better as it misses her split-crotch pants altogether). I wonder if its because we don't spend enough time outside with her -- obviously no-one wants to teach their kids to squat on the floor inside! I wonder how to teach her to squat rather than just stand? I will have to find that out this week!

Kelly (and Imogen, 14 months)

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